Curse

JR · Jan 16, 2007, 03:07 PM // 15:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blackhawk

OK guys calm down, although I have to admit some of the skills are nerfed for crybabys who cant be arsed to work out a counter.

If you think that Izzy caters for idiots when he balances skills then you are sorely, sorely mistaken. Some might argue that skill balances he has made in the past have been questionable, but I believe there are very few that could do that part of his job as well as the man himself.

Sid Doog · Jan 16, 2007, 03:07 PM // 15:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

No.

Skill balance affects PvE.

But.

It matters a lot less.

Stop. Read. Comprehend.

Broken skills in PvE exist already and they don't bother anyone (Monster skills anyone?), but broken skills and unbalanced skills cannot exist in a PvP environment, if it is to be a fair, fun and interesting field of competition.

I guess i am missing something here i am not trying to start any sort of flame wars or anything but how can you say that one effects the other more you cant it effects both the same

JR · Jan 16, 2007, 03:10 PM // 15:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sid Doog

scrool up i quoted you in the second post you begin with balanceing skills dosnt really effect pve at all

I am going to assume that English isn't your first language, seeing as your ability to comprehend fairly basic statements is lacking somewhat. I said that skill balance does not matter as much in PvE, not that it doesn't effect PvE as much.

Keep trying sparky.

Sid Doog · Jan 16, 2007, 03:12 PM // 15:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by mike1480

Yes, many games enjoy both aspects of the game. However, different games are more slanted twords one side.

Look at it this way: My guild could probly come into the hardest PvE area and beat it relativly efficiently, and we have at times. However, no PvE guild would stand a laughing chance in hell at lasting in any high end gvg games.

The better players are in PvP. The game is slanted to PvP.

if thats the case just ditch PvE all together and make this game more like unrealtournement thats PvP with guilds and all the goodies lol

mike1480 · Jan 16, 2007, 03:12 PM // 15:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sid Doog

I guess i am missing something here i am not trying to start any sort of flame wars or anything but how can you say that one effects the other more you cant it effects both the same

Skill combinations. Player behavior vs. Programmed AI. Many reasons.

Example: A nerf or buff to Balthasar's Aura wont affect PvE much, because you guys dont bring it (AI forces monsters to scatter and thus no one brings it - and PvE, as we all know, is more effective when its organized and controlled in one area). However, it would greatly affect the use of smiters in PvP.

Saphatorael · Jan 16, 2007, 03:13 PM // 15:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

... that particular brand of spirit shitting Ritualist...

Lawl, JR wins this thread.

Anyways, to make this post useful, a reply to your opinion and suggestions:

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

Spiritual Pain is a ridiculously good spike skill, which promotes a spike heavy metagame. Thus it needs toning down.

Maybe make the AoE conditional as well... as in, 'if there are spirits nearby'... it can still be used to spike, but likely not to hurt the rest of the team as badly as it does now. There's no need to make it worse than Unnatural Signet

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

Blinding Surge and Shield of Absorption are both just too strong against a pressure style of play. They also need toning down.

My idea for Blinding Surge? Make it work like Healing Burst and Star Burst. If it blinds in AoE, make the user lose an additional -5 energy. A minor difference, but it won't diminish the pressure as badly anymore

As for Shield of Absorption... make it 15 sec recharge or lose a second from the duration. It won't be killed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

A single Searing Flames Ele is a fairly weak character, the problem is that it gets exponentially better as you multiply them. Searing needs to be tweaked so it is more attractive to slot one or two into a standard build, and less appealing to run five of them and spam skills.

Tough to tone this one down... even though SF deals nice damage, it IS an elite... but some people's suggestions to double the casting time, add exhaustion etc. are just ridiculous. Up to ANet to nerf it... but if it were up to me, I wouldn't touch it... it lacks deep wound

Oh, and to the guy who wanted to see SF work like Shatterstone... bad idea. There's a major difference between hex and condition removal. Read your suggestion again, and check the condition removal skills vs. the hex removal ones.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

Spoil Victor probably needs the duration tweaked slightly. I don't think it's that imbalanced in all honesty. It's popularity in the Necro build is largely due to the build as a whole it's self, and the ability to fuel spamming it with Soul Reaping. That is the biggest issue.

That, or lengthen the recharge (15 seconds?). Upping the cost won't change alot, they've got Soul Reaping indeed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

Shadow Prison is fine, I feel. In higher levels of play it isn't that great because it just helps monks recognize the spike target

I still prefer an Axe Shock War, a shadow step+snare can't beat a kd, even though attentive monks will see the spike coming from miles away... but that's what's pressure is for.

@Sid Doog.
I used to be a hardcore PvE'er, until I actually wanted to see how good/crappy I was compared to other people. In the first months of GW, even PvE builds worked properly in most PvP arena's (I remember my 3 fame run when i entered HA for the first time... no elitism, nobody asked about my build). Nowadays I kill time by messing around with builds in RA, HB's, CM's and AB's, if I don't feel like playing PvE.

Time has passed, but the premise of Guild Wars that PvP IS the main part of the game hasn't changed, and balances will affect the entire gaming community of both PvE and PvP. EoE got nerfed a while ago to 'fix' Alliance Battles, which indeed affected alot of PvE players (Urgoz' Warren was made a bit tougher... though not much), but that's not much of an argument... just an example that hardly proves anything.

Mike is correct when saying that PvP will always have an unknown factor, namely your opponents. This makes the most important part of GW exciting, sometimes refreshing in case you meet a new build and crushed by it during the first encounter, then get back at them later in the match.
In PvE, you'll nearly always know what you're up against: the same area, the same mobs spawning at the same spots. This is also why Mesmers rock in PvE.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sid Doog

if thats the case just ditch PvE all together and make this game more like unrealtournement thats PvP with guilds and all the goodies lol

OR... you could quit playing GW and play some single player game?
Or work at Anet, kill some skills and make all the hardcore PvP'ers quit, noes!

If you bought GW for the PvE, just enjoy it with what you have. PvP is what GW has always been about, yet Anet will continue to make PvE content, and add new continents with each chapter. They leave it to the player what he/she will play.
Since you're a hardcore PvE'er, don't even look at the PvP scene. Yes, PvP has the most effect on what skills will be changed, but that's just the way it is. Adapt, don't whine.

Blackhawk · Jan 16, 2007, 03:14 PM // 15:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

If you think that Izzy caters for idiots when he balances skills then you are sorely, sorely mistaken. Some might argue that skill balances he has made in the past have been questionable, but I believe there are very few that could do that part of his job as well as the man himself.

I personally think he caters for people who's builds no longer work against new skills and wont change so they scream for a nerf.

JR · Jan 16, 2007, 03:17 PM // 15:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blackhawk

I personally think he caters for people who's builds no longer work against new skills and wont change so they scream for a nerf.

Then you are personally wrong.

Sid Doog · Jan 16, 2007, 03:24 PM // 15:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

I am going to assume that English isn't your first language, seeing as your ability to comprehend fairly basic statements is lacking somewhat. I said that skill balance does not matter as much in PvE, not that it doesn't effect PvE as much.

Keep trying sparky.

Now why try to attack me when i was have some good convo i guess you felt threatened ?? thats not what i am doing here just asking ?"s is all

I am not trying to get into a pissing contest with someone about a video game i was just trying to state an opinion is all but i guess you have to always be right well have at it sparky you win

P.S keep tryin

JR · Jan 16, 2007, 03:27 PM // 15:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sid Doog

Now why try to attack me when i was have some good convo i guess you felt threatened ?? thats not what i am doing here just asking ?"s is all

I am not trying to get into a pissing contest with someone about a video game i was just trying to state an opinion is all but i guess you have to always be right well have at it sparky you win

P.S keep tryin

You posted something that was incorrect, I corrected you. You misunderstood what I was saying so I corrected you again.

Welcome to the internet.

Sid Doog · Jan 16, 2007, 03:27 PM // 15:27

OR... you could quit playing GW and play some single player game?
Or work at Anet, kill some skills and make all the hardcore PvP'ers quit, noes!

If you bought GW for the PvE, just enjoy it with what you have. PvP is what GW has always been about, yet Anet will continue to make PvE content, and add new continents with each chapter. They leave it to the player what he/she will play.
Since you're a hardcore PvE'er, don't even look at the PvP scene. Yes, PvP has the most effect on what skills will be changed, but that's just the way it is. Adapt, don't whine.[/QUOTE] how am i whineing about anything just stateing an opinion,and if you read 99.99% of these threads it is always the hardcore PvP'ers that are whineing so why not just have them adapt??? just a ? is all

lyra_song · Jan 16, 2007, 03:32 PM // 15:32

Can we RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing stop derailing the thread?

>.>

Saphatorael · Jan 16, 2007, 03:32 PM // 15:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sid Doog

Now why try to attack me when i was have some good convo i guess you felt threatened ?? thats not what i am doing here just asking ?"s is all

I am not trying to get into a pissing contest with someone about a video game i was just trying to state an opinion is all but i guess you have to always be right well have at it sparky you win

P.S keep tryin

This thread is being killed... JR, perhaps you should put a stop to this one...

Also, as a law student, it's hilarious to see all the fallacies people use... try bringing some arguments instead of 'Poisoning the well'. JR is a respected person on this forum (by most people

), and knows what he's talking about (most of the time, but now, imo, he is.).

And stop using Ad Hominem arguments; return to your PvE shell, please. I don't think I actually need to say my own arguments to prove that your comments here haven't really helped this thread, you're basically making an idiot out of yourself. (No, I'm not flaming... I just want to prevent an escalation of this entire thing.).

Read what you have said/typed: Only taunting without any real reasons other than your statement that you love PvE. Well too bad, son: Guild Wars isn't all about one guy. There's more than 3 million copies sold out there, and you won't change alot. Especially as an admitted PvE'er.

[/judge mode]

EDIT:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sid Doog

how am i whineing about anything just stateing an opinion,and if you read 99.99% of these threads it is always the hardcore PvP'ers that are whineing so why not just have them adapt??? just a ? is all

I rest my case.

Oh, and stop trying.

Sid Doog · Jan 16, 2007, 03:43 PM // 15:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saphatorael

This thread is being killed... JR, perhaps you should put a stop to this one...

Also, as a law student, it's hilarious to see all the fallacies people use... try bringing some arguments instead of 'Poisoning the well'. JR is a respected person on this forum (by most people

), and knows what he's talking about (most of the time, but now, imo, he is.).

And stop using Ad Hominem arguments; return to your PvE shell, please. I don't think I actually need to say my own arguments to prove that your comments here haven't really helped this thread, you're basically making an idiot out of yourself. (No, I'm not flaming... I just want to prevent an escalation of this entire thing.).

Read what you have said/typed: Only taunting without any real reasons other than your statement that you love PvE. Well too bad, son: Guild Wars isn't all about one guy. There's more than 3 million copies sold out there, and you won't change alot. Especially as an admitted PvE'er.

[/judge mode]

EDIT:

I rest my case.

Oh, and stop trying.

PvE'ers out # PvP'ers hands down so this game has a much bigger PvE base ok so what who cares, does what people type here affect you in real life lol man i cant figure you people out like to dish but cant take it i guess

So this will be my last response to this thread and i do appolgize if you think i highjacked it or taunted anyone if i did sorry carry on

Saphatorael · Jan 16, 2007, 03:49 PM // 15:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sid Doog

PvE'ers out # PvP'ers hands down so this game has a much bigger PvE base ok so what who cares, does what people type here affect you in real life lol man i cant figure you people out like to dish but cant take it i guess

So this will be my last response to this thread and i do appolgize if you think i highjacked it or taunted anyone if i did sorry carry on

Base Rate Fallacy. Not a good argument at all... you might as well say all Germans are evil because 60 years ago some very naughty people started a war, it's basically the same.

And a bit of the Argumentum Ad Populum. It's not that there's a majority, that they're always right.

STOP TRYING.

The only thing I agree with you so far is the fact that this thread has derailed badly. So back to what this thread was made for, or lock it, please.

PS: sorry if the WWII reference might be harsh for some people on this forum, I just wanted to give an absurd analogy that cannot be denied (though it's actually a fallacy as well, but shh); mods can delete that part if they want.

Blackhawk · Jan 16, 2007, 03:51 PM // 15:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

Then you are personally wrong.

Depends on your point of view I suppose, all I see is stubborn people in PvP refusing to think anything but cookie builds and not actually thinking about why other teams keep kicking their arse, so they just call for a nerf.

mike1480 · Jan 16, 2007, 05:43 PM // 17:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blackhawk

Depends on your point of view I suppose, all I see is stubborn people in PvP refusing to think anything but cookie builds and not actually thinking about why other teams keep kicking their arse, so they just call for a nerf.

No one is calling for a nerf, we are calling for a:

S K I L L B A L A N C E

..as in EQUALITY of skills & no broken or rediculousy overpowered skills (IE Blinding Surge, SF, Spoil Vic, Dervishness, etc) - which would encourage LESS cookie cutting and button mashing and unoriginality.

Ps. No high end guilds in GvG use cookie cutter in their builds. Ever. We let that fall to PvE'ers and HA'ers (IE, GROUP NEEDS BIPPER AND TANK AND MONK spam FTL). The cookie cutter builds were initially made Anet @ the PvP creation screen so PvE'ers wouldnt look completely retarded when they tried to PvP.

Random Dude · Jan 16, 2007, 05:58 PM // 17:58

pfft whats the big deal with sandstorm

all u have to do is move <-<

is it so hard to do?

i love that skill >.<

mike1480 · Jan 16, 2007, 06:13 PM // 18:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Random Dude

pfft whats the big deal with sandstorm

all u have to do is move <-<

is it so hard to do?

i love that skill >.<

Yes, but in KOTH maps it's too overpowered. You need to keep your Hero on the alter to cap. Moving is not an option.

Blackhawk · Jan 16, 2007, 06:19 PM // 18:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by mike1480

No one is calling for a nerf, we are calling for a:

S K I L L B A L A N C E

..as in EQUALITY of skills & no broken or rediculousy overpowered skills (IE Blinding Surge, SF, Spoil Vic, Dervishness, etc) - which would encourage LESS cookie cutting and button mashing and unoriginality.

LOL Equality, wouldnt be much of a game then would it, as you'd be there for bloody hours.

I thought the whole point of PvP was to beat your opponent by having an advantage skill wise.